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[tok]

This is the feedback thread for Manowar, a forum based boardgame I've been running in a thread on the general forum.

link: http://forums.tigsource.com/index.php?topic=8391.0

I'm pretty sure this is okay.

WHAT I WAS TRYING TO DO
I wanted to make a forum game that lets people drop in and drop out as they like. This works okay for that. I also wanted to see if I could do strategy-by-commitee by having everybody vote on everything; but it took ages and needed a bunch of people, it did not really work.

STUFF THAT WORKS PRETTY GOOD
You get choices and sacrifices: whether to attack or defend each turn, whether to spawn guys early or wait, you can't attack without losing mans.

All the units work the same way, all the strategy is in where you put them.

The economy is kind of interesting, mans are worth one point or one point per turn or one turn in combat or as many turns as it took you to get them where they are.

 
STUFF THAT IS MESSY
point inflation: points are expensive to begin with but lose value in the midgame, everyone always gets more points than they can spend.

travel time: it takes 3-4 moves to move a man from any corner of the map to any other corner. So, for instance, spawning a man to defend against an attacker who is already moving is unfeasible, where it probably shouldn't be.

Besides this, it takes ages to do anything, one move is a couple hours to a day in real time, so 3-4 steps is a pretty long time.

symmetry issues: the red team was a man up all game, because the different starting moves are not really balanced against each other. If you take a point early and the other team doesn't, you can carry that advantage for the whole game, this is pretty messy.

but as well as this, the game is pretty symmetrical on the whole, possibly too much so.

RULE VARIANTS
-I kind of want to see how it plays out with three or four teams.

-Cokho wanted to spend points to extend a man's move distance, this maybe would fix the point inflation thing and the travel time thing, though probably the movement/defence rules would have to change. I'd have mans move like stunted queens (1-2 steps in one direction per turn, spend points to get 2 more steps in the same direction) and not allow them to move through enemy mans.

-Cokho also wanted to spawn mans and move mans on the same turn, this probably wouldn't hurt, would make troops easier to mobilise.

-SUPER-MANS, either as stacks or multicell behemoths. This could be another thing to spend points on, also, movement and combat could be different for these units.

-if we do different shaped super-mans (2by1,1by2,2by2,1by3,3by1) we can have them treat different distances as a step, based on the unit's width in that direction.

-different boards. there's a lot can be done with just moving the different elements around, having yellow squares be more sparse, etc.

-I wanted to try a hexgrid variant but I'm not sure if there's an easy way to address hexgrid cells (like A1, A2 etc)

Anyway, please post stuff that you think should go into future games. If somebody else wants to run the next game, that is okay with me.

[Glyph]

The game worked out well for the first time, the points racked up way too fast and by the end of the game, the number of mans or spawnable mans didn't matter at all, it's that one final attack that's going to win it or lose it. Another reason why manpower didn't matter is that their mobility as a group was so low, it was hardly even worth it to do it.
It would be cool to see some other usages of points, say, 20 points to shoot a devastating laser in a cardinal direction or drop an area effect bomb on a region. And points would also probably have to be used to increase mobility, etc. for group mobility and moving large masses to be easier.

[Cokho]

I did really love this things ! The ideas of differents uses for point are great ! We can do like traps ! i don't know if spawn AND move in the same turn is a great idea, I thinks there will be too much man then... same for the move depending on points: you can win too easely (like two turn of point and then you rush)
i was saying those because of the moment, but I don't think it'd be great for the game...
But super-mens IS a good idea! 

PS: i was so angry to get sick at the middle of the game 

[Inanimate]

I really liked this game because it didn't feel like a real strategy game, it was much more casual. Chess intimidates me, because everything is so strategic and I'm not the greatest at planning ahead strategically. This felt much more lax, and I felt like I could just let things go as they went. Of course, the problems arose when I noticed that wasn't true, as it took forever to actually react to movements or attacks. As you noted, travel time is a problem, and as Glyph noted, manpower isn't as useful as it should be. So it did need more strategy than I liked, but the important thing is it didn't feel like it, and in theory it isn't either. Refine it, and this is a great game.

PS: It's a lot harder to keep up one strategy when multiple people are suggesting things...

[Glyph]

Perhaps some sort of PMing system to keep the moves veiled from the other team? But that might get a bit garish...

One more thing to say: As Cokho mentioned, a buildup of points with effective use could lead to a premature win. Perhaps some way to safeguard your pyramid to stop that? or maybe an ammendment to the rules "you must retain control of the pyramid for x turns" to make it more balanced.

But, then again, like Inanimate said, it's really more of a casual game and all the elements I have suggested simply add more strategy, which is more up my ally but would perturb others.

[Inanimate]

Perhaps multiple pyramids? And you have to control all at once to win? (IE: You control all of your opponent's pyramids.)

And possibly have both sides require different strategies? One side could have lots of spawn points but only one pyramid, and the other not so many spawns, but lots of pyramids. Therefore, one side has to protect that one pyramid, but still make a considerable attack, while the other has to attack a huge army, but doesn't focus as much on defending, for they have multiple 'back-ups' to delay the control. Or, an interesting map, both sides' pyramids are near the center (but still closer to their color) to make an odd skirmish in the center, with backup being sent whenever sides get low. Lots of fun designs could be made, and I think opening it up to fans would be super fun (if you can't tell by my ideas)! And maybe we could have votes for the next rounds map whenever the previous one is finished.

EDIT: ANOTHER IDEA: maybe you could have obstacle spaces, which no one can go on, and can be black or something.

[droqen]

GENOCIDE.
link spawn circles to pyramids.
make yellow squares less common, so that you must fight over them.
make unowned pyramids, and require that you destroy every one of your opponent's mans
and require that also they either have no pyramids under their control
    or no points left.

NECRO